Report 1552
Report #1552 Skillset: Skill: Mindfield Org: Ninjakari Status: Completed Nov 2016 Furies' Decision: The requirement to declare on scrying will be removed; mindfield will always trigger damage but will be incapable of killing the target without a valid declaration. Problem: When someone scries you and you have mindfield (via the artifact or skill), if they haven't declared you then they do not get your room name but they DO get notification that you are online (they are told that they have to declare you). You, on the other hand, get no notification at all that they are scrying you despite them successfully seeing whether you are online or not. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: When the scry is blocked by not-having-declared, the recipient should still receive the "you sense the piercing/sweeping gaze of X," followed by a note that they were not able to perceive your location. Player Comments: ---on 10/22 @ 18:58 writes: Sol 1 supported. ---on 10/22 @ 20:12 writes: Sure. Also, does it take eq when it does that? ---on 10/22 @ 20:43 writes: Actually I think this whole declaring thing is stupid. Can we change it back to the way it was? Having to declare someone with the mindfield artifact in order to scry them makes this skill/artifact a lot more powerful than needed. It also means that I can go gank someone that scried me because they have now declared me. ---on 10/22 @ 21:40 writes: The initial report had a "just put it back the way it was" which is preferable to (almost) everyone, I think. They picked the declare solution. If they are going to keep the declare solution then this is my preference. I still don't see what the problem was with not having to declare at all and just having the mindfield always work. It's not like anybody ever actually died to that. ---on 10/23 @ 01:24 writes: Supported ---on 10/23 @ 18:48 writes: I don't support this. You aren't notified when someone fails a scry on your for other reasons. I agree with Synkarin, just go with another solution on the original report, one that won't spawn subsequent reports on the exact same issues. ---on 10/23 @ 19:57 writes: They didn't fail the scry, though-- they get the exact same information as from Clairsentience (person is on). I mean, now you can clairsentience to see who is around without even telling them that you did so if you don't declare. ---on 10/24 @ 08:57 writes: As the Envoy who created the previous report that resulted in the current state of things, I'd like to just say that clairsentience being treated as a special case anot being entirely immune to mindfield etc is fine by me. There are only a handful of people who have clairsentience, and the people it targets cannot be changed. This has two implications, actually - one, that the person using clairsentience can't just say, "I'll take that person off my list so I don't get whacked by mindfield." and two, it also means that it has a more limited use than normal farscout since the caster cannot specify who they want to scry. By making Clairsentience immune and excepted from mindfield, it means that all clairsentience hits will ping aethersight, thereby resolving the problem statement. For farscout - if the farscouter has been blocked from finding out the location of their target, then that's fine if the target doesn't know they've been scried - because they haven't been scried. If the farscouter wants to actually scry the mindfielder while the mindfielder (or the scrier) is protected by Avenger, then they have to jolly well have to declare to do so, and eat the mindfield backlash for doing so as well. ---on 10/24 @ 08:58 writes: To clarify a typo in the previous comment: Clairsentience being a special case and being immune to mindfield is fine with me. In fact, that's my explicit suggestion for a compromise / solution 2. ---on 10/27 @ 22:40 writes: I'm with Shuyin on this. Prefer to just undo the mindfield declare change. I'm against this report, which only aims to give mindfield and the artifact even more power. ---on 10/27 @ 23:06 writes: I think you're reading a different report, because it's not like it's a huge buff to anything. Either do solution 1, or just put it back to the initial state pre-ninja-change (which is what Sojiro was asking for, not "undoing the declare change"). If declare is the preferred solution, then the artifact should not disable aethersight, because that is silly. ---on 10/27 @ 23:09 writes: Unless you mean the *entire* declare change, I suppose, which would make it always work once more-- if so, then I do agree. That is definitely my preferred solution. I'm simply stating that if they are dead set on keeping declare in this, scrying someone should trigger aethersight (even if "blocked," because it is not 100% blocked). ---on 10/27 @ 23:51 writes: And I'm saying that if the declare thing is here to stay, then I'm against buffing mindfield even more. I'm of the opinion that if someone can't actually see your location then you shouldn't be told about it. ---on 10/28 @ 00:10 writes: So you're saying that you shouldn't see when I clairsentience you, because I don't get your location. Well, I completely disagree. Seeing that you're online is useful enough information. ---on 10/28 @ 03:04 writes: I will put out my position in #1482 here again. I don't actually care what happens to the artifact or any other ability beyond the fact that it is unacceptable for the psymet mindfield ability to be working at anything less than what it used to do. Which is to give a backlash to all scries, under all conditions, unless the scryer is in the mindfielder's ally list. If this backlash must be kept inside Avenger mechanics, THEN THE ONUS OF DECLARATION CANNOT BE ON THE MINDFIELDER. The scrier has to declare, if we want declare mechanics to be in the picture at all. Nothing else is acceptable. I don't care if this constitutes an effective "buff" to the ability - that the mindfielder does not have to declare to gain the advantage of his ability is the minimum requirement for any compromise or change, especially considering that the artifact was implemented without asking for feedback (which is fine - it's the admin's choice, and right to do so) and the nerf that resulted in report #1482 was put in silently (which is definitely not fine, and not acceptable). As I said above, however, an exception for clairsentience, that it be exempt from interacting with mindfield entirely, is a compromise I am willing to take. But not for any and all other scries. ---on 10/30 @ 14:09 writes: Just go back and allow mindfield backlash all the time with no regard to avenger mechanics with the caveat that it can't ever bring a target below 1hp if that's somehow a concern. It still puts you potentially in danger if you spam farscries at stupid times, but that was pratically the only time that it would be an issue before. ---on 10/30 @ 14:12 writes: At any rate, this report is pointless. As Xenthos (who inexplicably supports this report) pointed out multiple times on envoy, if you just want to see if someone is online you would go to Ethereal and do your scrying from there, where none of the avenger changes make a difference. The times you'd want to be scrying someone and wouldn't necessarily have the option of quickly going to Ethereal are time when you already know that person is online and therefore WOULD be failing your scry for the function it was intended, so it doesn't make sense to give aethersight. You literally aren't sensing the gaze of the scryer, because they are not gazing on you. ---on 10/30 @ 14:39 writes: That doesn't work Enyalida, it checks both targets for avenger actually, so if you're on prime, I can't scry you from anywhere without declaring you. If I'm on prime and you are not, I still have to declare to scry. ---on 10/30 @ 14:40 writes: Which is dumb, and should be changed. This change buffed the circlet (and the skill) significantly, where if I get scried on prime by anyone not an ally, I can now kill them with impunity because they had to declare me to see where I was. ---on 10/30 @ 23:07 writes: Enyalida: My support isn't 'inexplicable'. It's pretty clear. My preference is for putting this back to the way it was pre-ninja-change (as stated both in comments here and on Envoys). Failing that, having the artifact *should not* disable your own aethersight. Period. ---on 11/3 @ 13:25 writes: Support for Synkarin's hidden solution 2 which at least doesn't check both parties for avenger. It's silly that you can't at least go to ethereal to scry without declaring. I'm also for reverting the declaration change all together, I believe what I suggested before was what Enyalida just suggested which is making the backlash damage unable to kill. I also agree in general that you shouldn't be notified if the location was not given. I understand clairsentience is a special case but as a multi target spell it's a bit different than using a map or a scry enchantment which is being blocked by this declaration change. ---on 11/13 @ 16:21 writes: I support removing the declare on scrying. ---on 11/20 @ 20:56 writes: Using seek from havens also requires a declaration, which is also dumb. Can we please change this